About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:13 am

triac wrote:ano po ang avantage ng vacuum tube sa transistor or IC?mayroon sa father ko noon pro sira na.
first is you don't want to be seen around watching your fave TV show in a Tubed tv set, tube is far less efficient than bjt's or ic, the only reason tubes existed & continue to be manufactured in today's modern world is audio, to be specific High End Audio , but it does not mean to expensive & will be discussed sooner or later, God willing.

Now, why some people choose tube in an audio?

Here are some few facts about tubes:

1. tubes are non-linear, if overdriven, the curve is rather squashed or compressed, this is the main reason why many professional electric guitar players prefer tubes over semiconductors, Eric Clapton is one of them, another one is BB King.

2. tubes can distort even if not overdriven, but this distortion are mostly even order harmonics, these are prevalent (and sought after) especially in a single ended topology like pure triode or triode connected pentode.
This is the "magic" of single ended where pinoy tube fans call it "lambing", instruments sound very natural the way they should sound, human voice convey emotion, sometimes we call "vocals to die for", listener fatigue is almost non-existent even for several hours of continuous listening at a conversational level & even higher if the amp is built properly Very Happy

Let's turn to Solid State:

1. As we know it, they are linear devices, once overdriven they begin to clip, a mixture of odd & even harmonics which causes annoying dissonance, listener fatigue sets in even for a few minutes of listening, try to ride in one of the jeepneys plying the montalban - cubao route with heart pounding subs & ear bleed highs Twisted Evil then you will know what i'm talking about.

but advance technology of today paired with highly respected design engineers has come up with designs they claim as sounding "tubelike" (the irony of it Laughing )

And based on my own experience, a transistorized amp can be made to sound "tubey" if driven by a tube pre-amp, especially if they are operated in class A, even gainclones (IC amP) can exhibit that certain tube sound if driven by a tube pre-amp.

To be continued...


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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:21 am

by the way Triac, yung tube amp ng father mo is a good start on tubes, revive it, tube amp are far more simple than semiconductor types. Sir Tony of e-lab also restores vintage tube amps, he mentors me from the time i was starting my journey on tubes up to the time i was actually building my own, i owe him a lot Smile

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by Hertz on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:40 pm

welcome dito sir efren. buti napadpad kayo sa forum nato.

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:25 pm

Hertz wrote:welcome dito sir efren. buti napadpad kayo sa forum nato.
thanks sir Hertz Very Happy

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by ultrasonic™ on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:40 pm

nerfe wrote:weehh, di daw alam oh Razz

pero para sa kaalaman ng di pa alam (exept master admin ultra Laughing )

ngeeehhh di ko tlga alam ang detubo sir efren, di ko kasi inabutan ang Era nyan. sayang nga eh.. gusto ko din mg DIY sa bahay kaso di nmn available dito sa area ko ang mga tube...
nkpag experience lng ako ng Vacuum sa tv lng noong my nagpakumpuni sa aking na detubo na monochrome television eh kaso... power supply lng ang problema. pumutok ung fuse.. sa pgpalit ko gumana agad.. winarm up ko ayon tapos tuloy, ang probz lng di ko masxadong npag-aralan (^_^

btw sir efren... ung 10W class A amp na gawa ni sir arkin sa elab.. pwde na ba yung panimula namin? transistorize din xa...

pa ot: speaking of sir tony.. sana maligaw din xa dito lol!

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by arkin on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:47 pm

my nbili sana akong books about tubes,kaso binaliwala ko na lng.prang hirap kc sa availabiity ng parts d2..it range from 20-100w amp design.prang UK ata gling yon.

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:55 pm




btw sir efren... ung 10W class A amp na gawa ni sir arkin sa elab.. pwde na ba yung panimula namin? transistorize din xa...

pa ot: speaking of sir tony.. sana maligaw din xa dito lol!
opo, 5W per channel, ginawa din yun ni sir marcelino, kinonvert nya yung guitar amp na gainclone to class A, here is the link:
http://www.redcircuits.com/Page80.htm
This is my first encounter with class A Smile

if you're serious about solid state hi-fi, i highly recommend this, tried & tested ko na yan Very Happy

(for much more improved sound quality, replace 2N3055 with MJ15003)
the use of a full range, high efficiency (95dB up) speaker is highly recommended, but any 3 way "bookshelf" type will do.

10 Watts per channel is more than enough for home use, if you want power i recommend stick to class H or class D & see what 300W can do inside your home...
Be warned: class A is addictive once you tried it Laughing

it came from this link
http://www.tcaas.btinternet.co.uk/jlhnotes.htm

to truly appreciate the sound quality, use a good quality CD player, FLAC, or other format but not MP3, due to its highly compressed audio files, sound quality suffer a lot...

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:08 am

Before I forget, the use of capacitance multiplier in class A is mandatory, otherwise you will be disappointed with the result...
Here is a circuit to power up your class A dual rails.
http://sound.westhost.com/project15.htm

By the way here are some constructors comments regarding the JLH class A: http://www.tcaas.btinternet.co.uk/jlhsound.htm

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by ultrasonic™ on Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:40 pm

tnx.. sa class A sir efren.. lol!
dami ko nang "soon to be project" bago mg pasko
40W class AB ni sir danny at ito (^_^


xa nga pala sir, maitanong ko ilan ang voltage per rail nito ?


pwde na ba 12V para 24v lhat. tulad ng gnawa ni sir marcelino



nerfe wrote:Before I forget, the use of capacitance multiplier in class A is mandatory, otherwise you will be disappointed with the result...
Here is a circuit to power up your class A dual rails.
http://sound.westhost.com/project15.htm

kala ko ok lng na ordinary split supply. mlaki pala ang effecto
tnx dito sir efren +1 ulit sau
na aware ako

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by danny on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:13 pm

medyo nawala ako
hehehe medyo na busy
playing catch up ako muna Very Happy

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:23 pm

ultrasonic™ wrote:
xa nga pala sir, maitanong ko ilan ang voltage per rail nito ?


pwde na ba 12V para 24v lhat. tulad ng gnawa ni sir marcelino


http://sound.westhost.com/project15.htm

kala ko ok lng na ordinary split supply. mlaki pala ang effecto
tnx dito sir efren +1 ulit sau
na aware ako

yes pwede yan, anywhere from 12V above transformer secondary, just be aware of the e-caps working voltage & the transistors data sheets, I even use cap multiplier in high voltage power supply of my tube amps, i consider cap multiplier mandatory even in tube amps, specially Single Ended class A designs Very Happy

...and yes, power supply greatly affects sound quality of class A designs, very low kasi ang PSRR, you feed it with impurities it will spew out trash Laughing

Many thanks for the point Very Happy

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by ultrasonic™ on Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:27 pm

thank u sir.. +1 ulit.. mpag preactisan na nga to (^_^

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by james on Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:31 pm

Di ako makasunod.

Ano po ba dyan ang tinatawag na cap multiplier? noob question.

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:56 am

james wrote:Di ako makasunod.

Ano po ba dyan ang tinatawag na cap multiplier? noob question.
shortened "capacitor multiplier"

the 470uF connected to the base of BD139/BD140 is multiplied by 100 (assumed hFE of the given transistors)then the circuit sees a 47,000 uF plus the main filter cap value, replace 470uF with 1000uF, that will give you 470,000uF...

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by james on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:53 am

Sir Nerfe, is that really 470,000uf or 100,000uf?


Ganyan pala ang daya nyan. Shocked Surprised Very Happy Compare to a real capacitor bank ano po ang deference nila in terms of performance or anything?

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:50 pm

james wrote:Sir Nerfe, is that really 470,000uf or 100,000uf?


Ganyan pala ang daya nyan. Shocked Surprised Very Happy Compare to a real capacitor bank ano po ang deference nila in terms of performance or anything?

so sorry my mistake.... apologies

with a hFE of 100 times 1000uF that will give you roughly 100,000uF...

compared with a real capacitor bank, as far as i know, no difference at all.

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by james on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:59 pm

Oi ganyan na lang gawin ko kaya, para makatipid sa gastos, cap mulitiplier maliit pa footprint ko, since no difference naman pala sa tunay na cap bank.

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:57 pm

^it's worth a try Smile

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by james on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:53 pm

sir efren dun ba sa ibang store na naituro mo meron din mga vacuam tubes?

San pa kaya pwedeng makakuha?

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by nerfe on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:24 am

^try to contact sir tony of e-lab, he has hundred of tubes, he is selling driver tubes for less than a hundred pesos (6AV6) & power tubes (6AQ5) for less than 300 pesos Very Happy

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by danny on Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:27 pm

good price Very Happy

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by james on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:08 pm

Paabang na lang muna kay sir admin sa kanyang gagawin.

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by MCU on Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:01 pm


Good thread sir efren. +1
welcome to the Aelexian Empire

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by DJFEL on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:00 pm

sub...para sa mga master ng audio..

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

Post by 01110011 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:32 pm

sad news mga guys, pumanaw na po si sir efren due to a stroke,
nakakalungkot itong balita na to kasi andami pa sana nyang maitutulong sa atin :'(

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Re: About Vacuum tubes, Class A, & Hi-Fi

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